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PostSubject: The Hopeless Dream Review Topic   Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:05 am

This is the place to review and discuss The Hopeless Dream, or HD, as I have taken to calling it, by latest BIONICLE fan fiction. You know the drill.

I'm not known for perseverance. But I’ve worked for a long time, bursting to tell everyone what I was working on, trying not to tell until I had finished. Of course, the project changed several times, but hey, at least I didn’t get your hopes up for LEGO Doctor Who stop-motion movies!

Because that would have been silly.

Having gone through multiple revisions, The Hopeless Dream is currently a series of relatively short vignettes arranged into chapters, which I find much more manageable - with as many characters as I have, smaller sections are definitely preferable. My target is a post a week; we'll see how well I keep it, but for the first few weeks, at least, I have a stockpile to buffer me for those inevitable times when life gets in the way.

Please, tell me what you think! I love discussion, both in the form of positive and negative feedback, or even better, speculation as to where the story might be going. Do you have any guesses of your own?

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PostSubject: Re: The Hopeless Dream Review Topic   Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:20 pm

Okay, so.

The character clothing retcon, as you probably know, I approve of. :P Not much else to say on that, though you call the character in question a "preacher" later on... just a retconning mistake.

First, I should probably mention the things that I wasn't so sure about.

The major strangeness in this chapter was, to me, Telluris's demeanor. I always thought of him as a confidently aloof character, especially after acquiring the Skopio, and the story apparently portrayed him as paranoid and mad too. I'm not sure where in time you pulled Telluris from, or whether this was intentional, but I just never got any sense of him being "Telluris-y".

Viewpoint was a slight issue in some places; mainly, the viewpoint seemed to switch from Hahli to Norik by the end of the chapter, which is fine, but there were a couple of discrepancies. At the beginning of the fifth section (if I count Hahli's introduction as a section), it's Hahli's viewpoint to start out with, but then it pretty quickly switches to Norik. Later on in the sixth section, when
Spoiler:
 


I actually enjoyed the premise of the story, though, probably because the characters are as confused about their sudden human-ish-ness as the reader is. However much I've had a dislike of "Human BIONICLE" fanfiction ingrained in me, I think you're really doing it right here. :P This is what it should be.

One detail I appreciated was Krakua's deafness. I don't remember that being canonical, but that doesn't really matter here; it's a logical condition.

A much more minor detail: the Kanohi Volitak (the Mask of Stealth) is, I thought, unlikely to have a visor if Nidhiki was on land, in the same way that the air filter in the set version wouldn't be on a version on land.


I guess I don't have any more comments about style and details right now, other than that I enjoyed this chapter a lot once I actually read it. :P



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PostSubject: Re: The Hopeless Dream Review Topic   Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:18 am

I jumped a little in my chair when I saw you had posted a review. :P

Firstly, I anticipated your reaction to Telluris' portrayal in this chapter before I even finished writing it. :P You are correct; in the canon, he never came off as shy or reluctant. And as he spends time in the setting of HD, he will gain his former confidence back. But the transition from Glatorian to human seems to have affected him more than the others.

As far as the viewpoint goes, I've been describing the thoughts of any character whose thoughts seemed interesting at the time. I lost any desire to write in first person a long time ago partially because I preferred to focus on multiple characters. I did focus on Hahli initially, and then switch over to Norik, with sprinkles of other character's input, for a number of reasons. Using Hahli's viewpoint while she met Krakua allowed me to wedge plenty of exposition for Krakua's character into the dialogue. Having him explain itself, rather than just writing a flashback as I did for Norik and Hahli, felt better fitted to the task. Note that Norik, and especially Hahli, spent more time focusing on what happened recently, while Krakua spoke more about who he was. Furthermore, Krakua is far less straightforward than Norik or Hahli - while those two are liable to tell-you-like-it-is, Krakua can be cagey and defensive.

There are a couple of human-to-BIONICLE fan-fictions out there, but while many spend some realistic time explaining the characters' reactions to the transformation, I don't think a lot of them focus an entire vignette on the concept. However, I found the characters' means of coping to be an intriguing concept, and so I spent a lot of time on it. TV Tropes refers to that sort of thing as "Deconstruction", taking an idea apart and analyzing it. It's usually used in satire, although that's not the intent here.

Funny enough, I thought his deafness was canon, but it looks like I was wrong. I suspect I assumed he would have lost his hearing, using sonic blasts and having such sensitive ears. But then again, with control over sound, he might have been able to shelter his hearing, which I think was also implied at one point. Still, I like the detail too - especially since it justifies his use of Kanohi Suletu in every conversation. Call it an immaculate misconception, I suppose. :P

I never even thought about an un-mutated Mask of Stealth! Blank Shock Nonetheless, Nidhiki and I both have a feeling a gas mask might come in handy in this world, even if he doesn't know what it does quite yet. And also, a reminder: his gas mask isn't his Volitak. His Volitak has become a sort of immaterial concept ... he can access the powers, but he's not wearing anything on his face.

All in all, thanks for giving HD it's first review! :D

Of course, now I feel all the guiltier for putting off finishing Chapter 2 ... Glare :P

Edit: A couple months late, but the second chapter is up.

Many new concepts introduced - is it enough to win HD its first fan-theory? Shocked

Maybe.

But maybe not.

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PostSubject: Re: The Hopeless Dream Review Topic   Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:11 am

Spectral, I was about 3/4 through a review before I left, but SOME PERSON apparently crashed my browser today, and I lost it all. I'll try to quickly reconstruct it over the next few days, but I'm sorry about the delay. :P I read and liked and analyzed the chapter! I just need to start saving stuff outside my browser...

Anyway, we'll see if I can get something up on the weekend.



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PostSubject: Re: The Hopeless Dream Review Topic   Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:56 pm

I look forward to it. Spectral I'm having great difficulty motivating myself to write chapter four until I get some feedback. I shouldn't have to rely on reviews like that, but...

In any case, I await.

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PostSubject: Re: The Hopeless Dream Review Topic   Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:06 am

All right now... let's see what we've got. Some of this will be from memory.


A fairly fast-paced chapter, and I think this is where things really start picking up.

We see more of Krika's semi-untrustworthy nature in this chapter, and I'll be honest that I'm not sure whether that's a good thing. I almost feel that a character like him should be left more mysterious than he is portrayed here, at least with your omniscient 3rd-person viewpoint.


[Poorly restored paragraphs, will finish this tomorrow. Glare I should NOT have left this 'til the last minute.]



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PostSubject: Re: The Hopeless Dream Review Topic   Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:27 pm

Hm... well, I'm happy to hear any more, and always greatful to be getting any reviews at all. Spectral

As far as what you've said already, I agree that Krika isn't too mysterious. It doesn't suprise me that you'd prefer a more secretive character, but I'm happy with how he's turned out. He does have a plan in the works already, but he's not hiding that he's a sociopath, probably because he knows he doesn't need to. As much as he respects the Toa, he is still a Makuta Lord, an unusually patient and cynical one, but a Makuta Lord nonetheless. He knows that the Toa will come to trust him if he plays along - the Brotherhood did, after all, and the Toa are more trusting than they - and for now, he's more than content to taunt them from the back.

Speaking of characterization, have your opinions of my Telluris changed at all from reading this new chapter? I'm trying to characterize him as a coward who tries to act tough in the face of danger, although he certainly would be more confident if he had his Scopio (to your earlier point), or any way to defend himself. So far, my draft of the fourth chapter has even more characterization for him.

Oh, and if you're wondering, this chapter will be split into the second and the third chapters, as it is on BZP, before I post the forth chapter.

Edit: The deed is done. Although I hope I fooled at least one of you into thinking it was a new chapter. :P

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PostSubject: Re: The Hopeless Dream Review Topic   Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:11 am

Sadly I was not fooled by the post split. :P

I realize that Krika doesn't have to be mysterious in the story, but again - just my personal preference as a reader is for a more mysterious villain protagonist, if I can call him that.

I think I do at least understand your characterization of Telluris better now. I'm still not sure about it in a general sense, and it diverges from the official story, but I seem to see where you're going. I'll need to reread these chapters - and again, I'm sorry I'm so late with a proper review, by all rights I should've given you proper feedback already - but I think that's what I thought from this formerly-unified chapter.



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PostSubject: Re: The Hopeless Dream Review Topic   Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:03 pm

Honestly, I never saw much of the canon Telluris. I read transcripts of some of Sahmad's Tale, but even there he didn't get much development. I've essentially been doing my own thing with him - do you remember where you got your sense for the character? I should at least take a look, if he's to be one of my protagonists.

And yeah, I now how you love mysterious villain protagonists. :P Rest assured, I have plans to make this story pretty mysterious. We're still just getting started, after all!

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PostSubject: Re: The Hopeless Dream Review Topic   Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:12 am

I'm not entirely sure where I got my idea of Telluris. :P It may just have been from BS01's account, which isn't very much either. It's true that he never got much development...

We certainly are just at the beginning here though - which is a good thing, considering that means many more chapters.



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PostSubject: Re: The Hopeless Dream Review Topic   Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:52 pm

Although it may not seem like it now, Hopeless Dream has always been intended as a serial, a story which progresses from episode to episode with no end in sight. Changes made in one chapter will effect the others, and story-arcs are certainly going to be present, but for the most part, individual chapters were meant to be self-contained. I originally intended the entire airship situation in a single chapter, but it has become increasingly obvious that another chapter or two will be warranted before the characters can move on, and we've already had three.

In the future, perhaps the stories will be shorter, or the chapters which express them longer. At the moment, I'm considering grouping the vignettes into sub-headings, like "Chapter 1: Arrival -- Part 1: Falling". If I was to do that, we'd be seeing it when the airship-related chapters (or Arrival, if you prefer) end and the next chapter begins.

So, hopefully, plenty more chapters! Spectral I have two other projects I'm juggling at the moment, something that's quite difficult to describe, and a World of Darkness Chronicle, but after both have been updated, my attention will turn to finishing up the first chapter.

Lovely how all of that terminology developed as I was writing, huh? :P

Edit: Happy Friday the Thirteenth, everybody! In celebration of one of my favorite dates, we have the Thirteenth Vignette of Chapter 1, entitled "Pulse", to remind you all that the heart of Hopeless Dream is still beating. Updates should theoretically be more frequent, although shorter, from now on.

Edit the Second: As promised, another update this week. I'll aim for one each Friday. Those of you that have been putting off reviews, take note of how new material will accumulate and plan accordingly, and keep in mind that a few words in edgewise is better than an empty promise for a literary essay. It doesn't matter how slowly you go, so long as you don't stop.

Edit the Third: And another. How long can I keep this up, I wonder?

Edit the Fourth:

Tick, tock
the Month of Oc-
-tober crawls along.

Waiting for Wall-
-y to read all.
Sadly, he is gone.

Edit the Fifth: I am officially out of my stock updates, and, wouldn't you know it, I haven't written anything else. Oopsies! Will this be the end of my update streak? We can only hope that I managed to finish a new update within the next seven days. Or dread, if my updating has been emotionally abusive towards you.

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PostSubject: Re: The Hopeless Dream Review Topic   Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:43 am

Yes this is a long-overdue review.  I'm so bad at reviewing this epic in particular that I'm going to stick to just the basic skeleton of the text I lost when I was trying to compose an earlier version of this post.  :P  I'm going to write things down as I read; sorry for any bias towards corrections and negative impressions, but if I wrote down all the positive stuff, this review would just get super-long.


Okay, my first thing was a concern/peeve.  Your use of 3rd-person omniscient perspective is nothing new at all, but your use is far less discriminate than some.  The line can sometimes blur quickly between the implication of things said outright, the statement of things only thought, and the inference of emotion from actions.  I can't tell whether you were trying to have the story lack a central narrator or a series of primary narrators, but the story wavers a bit when there's this little focus on any character we can get used to at a time.

One other complaint is not actually a complaint that I have.  :P  There has been a huge backlash from some "serious" writers against descriptive synonyms for "said".  You make massive use of those kinds of synonyms in HD.  While I'm not saying I care, or that you need to stop doing that, I admit that it's distracting now that I'm tuned in to amounts of usage like this.  It may not be my complaint but I definitely notice.  Take that however you want, I'm not intending to debate this and I don't know the reason for some writers' complaining.

My last negative thought, most personally, is my continuing bafflement over your portrayal of Telluris.  Never mind what comes later on for him in HD; Telluris was always shown as a resourceful, irrational, arrogant engineer of scrap.  When he endured the unimaginable Plague of his tribe, he didn't break down into a sobbing heap, he went mad and fled on his vehicle into the desert.  In HD, he appears as an emotionally damaged being, who only stiffens his spine out of a sense of embarrassment and shamed pride.


However, once I get into the flow of things, I end up reading it as avidly as a book.  Of course, my way of reading a book is rather flawed, and I think I miss a few small details here and there.  But obviously if I'm reading this quickly it's a good thing.  :P  You do a good job with the group dynamics, as well as the problem-solving and suspense of moving through the darkened, shattered aircraft.

Couple of corrections in the course of things: When ending lines with quotations, use a period inside the endquote.  Also, Chain-Lightning Kraata have a bluish-grey head but an olive- or metallic-green tail, not the "sickly yellow" you describe.

In any case, I don't have any remaining opposition to your strange device of humanized-BIONICLE, by the way.  Like I mentioned briefly in an earlier review, you use it more as a way to explore new vulnerabilities of beings who are naturally biomechanical, rather than as an egregious excuse to draw BIONICLE characters as idealized humans.  :P


Having just reached the end of what you've posted, I'm pretty disappointed to not have more to read!  I admit my initial reaction as a reviewer to HD was exasperation that you were writing a long-form BIONICLE epic, something I've always found difficult to comment on.  I've turned that feeling around and eagerly await new chapters now that I've read the story through.  I certainly hope you continue with this project.


EDIT: Oh yeah, and you welcome speculation, right? :P Well, I'm not much for speculation usually; I'm just along for the ride. That said, I'm curious about what's going on outside the airship, the forces "on the ground" (so to speak, as the airship is also grounded). Where do major figures like the Shadowed One fit in, with the tangential introduction of Hunters? And of course, my interest strays outside the given story altogether - where does a would-be creator like Karzahni fit in this semitechnomodern world? I'm left wondering and, of course, waiting.



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PostSubject: Re: The Hopeless Dream Review Topic   Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:16 pm

Wow, this centralized narration really gets to you... I'll certainly have to assess it. At first I thought nothing of your complaint on the subject, but I can see how a lack of focus would be a determent to character development and all...

Dear lard, the "said" synonyms... Microsoft Office Word refuses to admit half of them are proper uses of the verb, especially "Quoth he," a character's voice came. Nevertheless, I personally favor their usage over repeating the word "said," and as your not really complaining, anyway, I think it'll stick around.

Assuming I ever write another chapter. :P

Telluris... I don't know what to do about him. I couldn't find any canon information whatsoever, unless I wanted to dig through the pages upon pages of Bara Magna side stories for characterization I'm not convinced existed. I can hand-wave his behavior as the fact that he believes (believed?) he's dead, but especially since I don't know how exactly I'm straying from canon I'm probably better off hand waving it altogether. All of the other characters were well-defined, in my mind's eye, but I needed someone to break down, and someone for Krika to "comfort" in order to establish his approach to sentiment.

My Kraata source, BIONICLE Wiki, says "yellow metallic tail." See for yourself - perhaps it needs editing. I'm impressed to knew off the top of your head - or did you actually double-check?

Quotation integration is abysmal, I know. My new English teacher just went over that a few weeks ago, and now I feel silly.

It's funny how this humanized BIONICLES business came about. It started back while I was working on Slizers: Resurrected and was looking for ways to give the fittingly lifeless, characterless robots a stark reimagining. Then, I pulled the trick again in the equally short-lived VEZONICLE... Lime, I think it was. To be fair, I could tell story of The Hopeless Dream with them as biomechs, but I think it adds a nice touch of atmosphere. Somehow, the dramatic shift from peaceable Matoran workers to soldiers, the marooning of mostly unacquainted characters in another world, it all needed something to push it over the edge from "Alternate Universe" to "Epileptic Tree Mystery."

Note the correct punctuation.

I'll be working on a new little update, in any case. Spectral

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PostSubject: Re: The Hopeless Dream Review Topic   Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:53 pm

Streamlining your narration to one character per section would definitely help out, I think.  There are times when true 3rd-person omniscience can be okay, but sticking with switching viewpoints works in a more focused way, most times.

You certainly haven't misused any of the "said" synonyms in a technical sense.  :P  Okay on your decision to stick with them though.  A few of them do make more sense sometimes, anyway.

For Telluris... I see what you mean about the need for a character who'll break down, for story purposes, but it's just way too much handwaving for me.  :P  I can't refer you to what I read in particular that gave me my impression of him, but [url=biosector01.com/wiki/index.php/Telluris]right here[/url] it says he was arrogant, deranged, and perfectly confident.

It's better to look at pictures than rely on a source - my source for Kraata colors used to be BZP's guide, but now I rely on this photographic one.  Chain Lightning is 1right and 2up from the lower left; I would call that tail much more "metallic green" than "metallic yellow".  :P  And yes, I did actually double-check.  The only ones I know off the top of my head are Fear, Disintegration, Poison, Hunger, Fragmentation, Anger, Electricity, Density Control, and Fire Resistance.

Well, I have no other comment on the humanization other than that "it's working".  :P  (And yes, I note the correct punctuation, haha.)

In the meantime, I greatly look forward to the next update(s).



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PostSubject: Re: The Hopeless Dream Review Topic   Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:31 am

At long last, another update is come! Since you seemed interested in the Hunters, this ought to intrigue you, Wally.

Here's hoping I can be more productive in the New Year!

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PostSubject: Re: The Hopeless Dream Review Topic   Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:02 am

OH YEAH HUNTERS. I approve of the use of our favorite Skakdii's taglines as their codenames.



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PostSubject: Re: The Hopeless Dream Review Topic   Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:23 pm

I often assumed that the taglines were meant to be codenames, given the Piraka's backgrounds as Dark Hunters. You might have picked up on the pattern with Avak, although his nickname isn't well known.

I've found writing for the Piraka can be tricky, somewhat analogous to writing for Telluris. While I never got a sense of Telluris' personality, the Piraka's personalities were very similar. I've wound up exaggerating some of their qualities - do you think it works?

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PostSubject: Re: The Hopeless Dream Review Topic   Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:42 pm

Avak's isn't too obscure, but I somehow forgot you referred to him by his tagline earlier. :P But the Piraka's taglines all go together, they're all in my memory - Bully, Beast, Snake, Tracer, Trigger, and Drifter, am I right?

The longest-running Piraka in HD is Avak, and I thought what you've done with him is genius in this setting. It's harder to get a sense of Zaktan and Hakann but they they have just the one chapter, and I expect they'll be around again. I will say that Hakann is by far the least-defined Piraka in my imagination, probably because he's described as the most callous of them but without being a loner like Vezok or Thok.



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PostSubject: Re: The Hopeless Dream Review Topic   Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:17 pm

I find Tracer the hardest to remember, personally... and if we're aiming for completion, we might throw in Double for Vezon, depending on whether you consider him a Piraka.

I'm surprised and flattered that you'd describe my interpretation of Avak as genius, but he's a favorite of mine, and so of course I put some effort into doing him justice. As for Hakann, I agree that he's not too hard to capture - he's basically just egotistic - but Zaktan is much more challenging, especially since I decided to make Lurker the leader of this operation instead of him.

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